Remarks Prior to a Meeting With President Matamela Cyril Ramaphosa of South Africa and an Exchange With Reporters

President Trump. Thank you very much, everyone.

It's a great honor to be with the President of South Africa, President Ramaphosa, and he is a man who is certainly, in some circles, really respected—other circles, a little bit less respected. Like all of us, in all fairness. [Laughter] Like all of us.

President Ramaphosa. We're all like that. [Laughter]

President Trump. Yes.

We also have a few of my friends. Ernie Els is a great golfer. He's a truly great golfer. Retief Goosen, who's an—other really—we call him, really, a great golfer too, Ernie, right? You two guys are fantastic. And we could add Gary to the group—Gary Player. What a group of golfers South Africa has had. I don't know—

President Ramaphosa. Yes. Yes.

President Trump. There must be something in the water, right?

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. It's something good. These two guys are unbelievable.

President Ramaphosa. It's the water. It's the water, sir.

President Trump. No, Gary is Gary. And David Frost, also, another one that I know is—is such a great one.

President Ramaphosa. Yes. Indeed.

President Trump. Was he as good a putter as they say, David? He's a putter. He's a putting machine, right?

Participant. Absolutely.

President Trump. But he's another one. So, something very good about South Africa and golf. And golf is still doing great in South Africa, and they have young players, I hear, coming up that are going to be very good.

But it's an honor to have you here. And my friend, it's an honor to have you, one of the greatest businessmen in South Africa and long—and long beyond. Thank you for being here. It's a very great honor. Appreciate it.

So we're going to be discussing certain things. As you know, we have—the G–20 is going to South Africa. When is that going to be?

President Ramaphosa. In November.

President Trump. In November.

President Ramaphosa. Thereafter, I hand over to you.

President Trump. Yes, we have it next.

President Ramaphosa. And you originated the G–20——

President Trump. Yes.

President Ramaphosa. ——so I'll hand over the baton to you.

President Trump. That's right.

President Ramaphosa. And then you lead the G–20 in——

President Trump. That's right. We're going to have it—we're going to have it the following year.

President Ramaphosa. Yes. Yeas.

President Trump. So we'll be discussing many things, and some of the things you've been reading about in the papers and——

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. ——in the media. And I would say that, look, the President is a truly respected man in many, many circles. And in some circles, he's considered a little controversial, but we're going to be discussing some of the things that are taking place in South Africa and see if we can help, and we want to help.

And we've had a long relationship with South Africa. I have because, indirectly, I have so many friends that live there. I have a lot of friends. I mean, these are famous guys, but I have a lot of friends that live there that are tremendous people.

And we'll be discussing that. We'll have a nice conversation. And I really appreciate that you guys came along. It's really—it really helps us in our thought process.

But it is a great honor to have you, and I appreciate you called. You—he called. I don't know where he got my number—[laughter]—but I picked up. He said, "I want to come over and see you." That was my honor. And thank you very much for being here.

President Ramaphosa. You're most welcome.

President Trump. Thank you. Thank you very much.

President Ramaphosa. Most welcome.

Well, thank you very much for welcoming us to this reformed White House. I've been here before, and it looks really fantastic. I must congratulate you.

President Trump. Thank you.

President Ramaphosa. But I also thank you for allowing our delegation. This is a very mixed delegation that you've got. We've got people from Government, my Ministers. I've got someone from the trade union movement, who we really collaborate with——

President Trump. Yes.

President Ramaphosa. ——and from business as well. And our sporting legends.

When I spoke to you, you said: "Yes, come along, and bring Gary Player. Bring Ernie Els and Retief Goosen." I brought the two of them. [Laughter] Gary Player, I——

President Trump. What happened to Gary?

President Ramaphosa. No, I spoke to him, and he said, "Look, I'm getting rather on in my years," but wishes us luck in this discussion with you.

So it's a real joy. And I'd also like to thank you for allowing your people to start discussions with us at the trade level. I mean, we are essentially here to reset the relationship between the United States and South Africa.

We are long, longstanding partners in many, many ways. We've collaborated in many fields—in space issues, in energy, and in trade. And we therefore need to reset that, particularly in the light of some of the announcements that you made on trade and investment.

President Trump. Right.

President Ramaphosa. So we want to advance more trade between the two of us. Our two countries and our people now have been empowered by yourself and by myself to start engaging, and we hope that you will be able to fuel that engagement during our talks.

And we also want to discuss issues that have to do with how we promote further investments in both countries. We've got about 22 companies from South Africa that have invested in the U.S., thus creating a number of jobs. And similarly, you've got almost 600 companies that have invested in South Africa, and some of them have been in South Africa for more than a hundred years.

President Trump. That's true. That's true.

President Ramaphosa. So our links are really long-lasting, and we would like to recalibrate those relations between our two countries and discuss a whole range of issues—geopolitical—the work that you're doing to bring peace around the world, in Ukraine and in the Middle East. So we value that, and we are also a great contributor to peace processes that are going on around the world.

And of course, we want to discuss how we can support each other. You are a much bigger economy than we are. We are just a tiny economy, but we rely on each other on a number of issues. We've got critical minerals that you want to fuel the growth of your own economy and reindustrialize. So we have that on offer, including rare earth minerals.

So all that combination of opportunity and the products that we buy from you, as well as what we sell to you, I believe, makes up a really good and powerful relationship, which we need to strengthen, which we need to engender. And that is really what has brought us here.

And we are really privileged to have, you know, great South Africans in the mix. As you said, you'd like to see them as well.

And I brought you a really fantastic golf book. It weighs 14 kilograms——

President Trump. Oh, that sounds good.

President Ramaphosa. ——and it showcases the golf courses in our country. Johann Rupert wrote the preface, so did Ernie Els. And I want to showcase our golf courses. You might remember when I spoke to you and we spoke about golf, you said I should start practicing. And I've started practicing, President. [Laughter] So I'm ready.

President Trump. Good.

President Ramaphosa. But let me end just the introductory remarks by thanking you. You may not recall that 5 years ago, I spoke to you during the COVID period.

President Trump. Right.

President Ramaphosa. And it was at a time when the whole world was going through a really cathartic moment.

President Trump. Right.

President Ramaphosa. And we asked for assistance, and you were able to assist us with resp—what are they called?——

Participant. Respirators.

President Ramaphosa. Respirators. Respirators. Yes. [Laughter]

Respirators. And you kept your word, and you delivered respirators to us. We didn't have as many in our country, and it really helped—

President Trump. Yes.

President Ramaphosa. ——to deal—to help us deal with COVID.

So I'm here also to say thank you and to thank the people of America for having helped us during a really difficult time. Being the small economy that we are, we needed help from around the world, and you were there to provide that. So thank you very much for that.

President Trump. I remember the call.

President Ramaphosa. Yes. Thank you.

President Trump. We sent 150 respirators. We became the respirator king. We started making them. Nobody had them.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. We had very few of them.

President Ramaphosa. That's right.

President Trump. But they were very helpful. But we sent 150 of them.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. And I appreciated the letter. You wrote me a letter and——

President Ramaphosa. That's right, yes.

President Trump. ——thanked me. I appreciate that very much.

President Ramaphosa. Thank you very much for that. It really touched my heart after I spoke—to you and you delivered.

President Trump. It's a great honor.

President Ramaphosa. Thank you very much.

President Trump. Thank you.

President Ramaphosa. Yes. Yes.

President Trump. Any questions, please?

NBC News/Illegal Immigration/U.S. Admission of Afrikaner Farmers as Refugees

Q. Mr. President, you welcomed the White Afrikaner refugees here. Can you explain to Americans why it's appropriate to welcome White Afrikaners here, when other refugees, like Afghans, Venezuelans, Haitians, have all had their protective status revoked?

President Trump. Well, this is a group—NBC—that is truly fake news. They ask a lot of questions in a very pointed way. They're not questions. They're statements.

We've had tremendous complaints about Africa—about other countries too—from people. They say there's a lot of bad things going on in Africa, and that's what we're going to be discussing today.

When you say we don't take others, you're—all you have to do is take a look at the southern border. We let 21 million people come through our border totally unchecked, totally unvetted. They came from all over the world. In many cases, they're criminals. They come from prisons. They come from mental institutions. They come from street gangs. They're drug dealers.

So don't say that we didn't take them. We take them. We're trying to get them out as fast as we can, and we're doing record business on that.

And we just won a big case. We're allowed to send back hundreds of criminals to Venezuela. Just won that today in the Supreme Court, I'm happy to hear.

But we do have a lot of people are very concerned with regard to South Africa, and that's really the purpose of the meeting, and we'll see—how that turns out. But we have many people that feel they're being persecuted, and they're coming to the United States.

So we take from many locations, if we feel there's persecution or genocide going on. And we had a lot of people, I must tell you, Mr. President, we have had a tremendous number of people, especially since they've seen this. Generally, they're White farmers, and they're fleeing South Africa, and it's a—you know, it's a very sad thing to see.

But I hope we can have an explanation of that, because I know you don't want that. And it's—you know, it's a—kind of a different meeting. Normally, we have meetings, we talk about trade—and we'll be talking about trade and other things. But that certainly will be a subject that comes up.

Yes.

[At this point, several reporters began asking questions at once.]

Yes, please. Brian [Brian Glenn, America's Real Voice].

New York State Attorney General Letitia James

Q. Thank you very much. I'd like to get your thoughts on Letitia James. Director Pulte—according to him, Letitia James says that the alleged mortgage fraud was simply a mistake. I want to get your thoughts on that. She put down that her father was her husband in order—and this is very similar to, I guess, the false attacks they had on you.

President Trump. Well, I don't know what it is currently, but Letitia James, who is the attorney general of New York State, it seemed—I'm not involved in that at all. I know they're—it's being handled by various groups, I guess. But it's a—it's major fraud: mortgage documents and fraudulent everything.

Yes, I think she said the father was her husband, which she had to have a husband, or—so, she chose her father, and she put it down.

And she's had—didn't she sign in Virginia, yet she said she lived in Virginia, yet she's the New York State attorney general, and she did that for tax reasons so she could take advantage of taxes. And she had the wrong number of units. She had a much different number, which wouldn't have allowed her to qualify and—and scam the government.

So I don't know. I think she's very bad for New York, but I really don't know too much about it. But I appreciate the question.

Q. Yes, sir.

President Trump. Thank you very much.

Q. Yes, sir.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Q. Mr. President, what's it going to take for you to be convinced——

President Trump. Go ahead.

Q. Me?

Q. ——that there's no genocide?

President Trump. Go ahead, please.

Africa/Rwanda/Democratic Republic of the Congo/Pakistan/India/Russia/Ukraine

Q. Thank you, Mr. President. So May 25 will be the celebration of Africa Day, which pretty much a lot of celebration will be taking place around the world, including here in the United States. What is your message to the entire African Continent, African people on this important occasion?

President Trump. Well, I want to see peace, and I want to see happiness. I want to see health. And you know, you have incredible land. There's tremendous value. A lot of countries don't have that value in the land, the value you have.

You know, we have a situation. I think you probably heard about it. We've done—through some very talented people, helped settle a war that's been raging for years—Rwanda and the Congo. And I think we've done it. Believe it or not, I think we've done it.

And I—could you just say a few words about that, my friend?

White House Senior Adviser for Africa Massad Boulos. Yes. A couple of weeks ago, we signed—they signed—the two parties signed the declaration of principles in which they've agreed on the way forward. And we're—they have both submitted their draft peace agreements. And we have put together one that incorporates both of their suggestions, and we've given it to them.

So we're in the process of finalizing this peace agreement.

President Trump. Looking good, right?

Senior Adviser Boulos. Looking very good.

President Trump. So he——

President Ramaphosa. I know we have to thank you——

President Trump. Yes.

President Ramaphosa. ——even those efforts, because the African Continent—particularly SADC, our Southern African Development Community—has, for years, been seeking to foster peace in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. So, all efforts, including those from outside the continent and inside the continent, are really worthwhile.

We have just—we are removing our troops from there so that peace can then prevail in that whole area. And we hope that, with the support of the international community, we will really have peace in that area. It's so vital. It's so important for the whole region.

President Trump. Well, we sent our people there, and I think we did a very good job. I sat here by my friend, and that was great. That was great.

I mean, I'm just hearing phenomenal reports, because all I'm hearing is death, death, and they're chopping heads off, and it's horrible over there. And it was really brave of you to go there, and I really appreciate it. And it looks like that—it looks like we have something very substantial.

We also talked about trade with them in terms of rare earth and all.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. But really more for the—it's like—if you take a look at what we just did with Pakistan and India, we settled that whole thing, and I think I settled it through trade. We're—we're doing a big deal with India. We're doing a big deal with Pakistan.

And I said, "What are you guys doing?" You know, they—somebody had to be the last one to shoot. But the shooting was getting worse and worse, bigger and bigger, deeper and deeper into the countries. And we spoke to them, and we—I think we—you know, I hate to say we got it settled, and then, 2 days later, something happens, and they say, "It's Trump's fault."

But we—Pakistan has got some excellent people and some really good—a great leader. And India is——

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. ——my friend—Modi.

President Ramaphosa. Modi.

President Trump. And he's a——

President Ramaphosa. Mutual friend.

President Trump. Yes. He's a great guy.

And I called them both, and we just did something good.

We're trying to settle Russia-Ukraine. We spoke with President Putin for 2½ hours the day before yesterday. I think we made a lot of progress. But that's a bloodbath. Five thousand people are being killed a week—5,000 soldiers a week, not including people in cities and towns that are also being killed. So we're trying to help.

President Ramaphosa. You recall——

President Trump. And it doesn't affect us. It's not our people, it's not our soldiers, it's not our—it's Ukraine, and it's Russia. But if we can save 5,000 souls, we'll do it. You know, we're pretty good at it.

But it's a—that's a bad situation. That is a really bad situation.

President Ramaphosa. Well, you recall when President Zelenskyy was coming to South Africa, that's when I spoke to you.

President Trump. That's right.

President Ramaphosa. We both agreed that we need to push the peace message so that there can really be peace. And we've been involved in the Ukraine-Russia conflict for quite a while. Through my Minister of State Security here, we've been dealing with them in the exchange of children who were taken away, going through names and addresses and all that.

So we've been invested in that whole process as well, and the moves that you are making are fully supported by us, because we would like to see the end of that war.

President Trump. That's true. I called Zelenskyy, and they said, "He's in South Africa." I said, "What the hell is he doing in South Africa?" [Laughter]

President Ramaphosa. He was talking to us.

President Trump. Then we got to speak. That's a strange one. I said, "What you're doing in South Africa?"

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. That's a strange one.

President Ramaphosa. He's trying to make peace.

President Trump. But that's all right. [Laughter] He's—he's trying—he's doing——

President Ramaphosa. But we—we're taking——

President Trump. He's doing something.

President Ramaphosa. You know, we were lucky because we had the great Nelson Mandela, who taught us how to create peace, to make peace. So we were imparting some of those lessons to him, some of those learnings.

And I specifically mentioned to him that this is how Nelson Mandela taught us, that when you want to have a peace in a country, do it on an unconditional basis and sit down and talk. And that's precisely what I'm sure he's going to heed going forward.

The President. Well, we're going to see what happens with that one. It's a lot of—there's a lot of hatred.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. There's a lot of death. It's a bloodbath. It's a bloodbath.

President Ramaphosa. It is. It is.

President Trump. I get the——

President Ramaphosa. Unfortunately.

President Trump. I get the satellite pictures of that field—of that killing field. You never saw anything like it in your life.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. It's a horrible thing that it goes on. But I think we've made big progress.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Yes, please. Go ahead.

Q. Thank you, Mr. President. Gaza is on a——

President Trump. No, no. Not you. Right here.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

He's from South Africa.

Q. Yes, from South Africa.

President Trump. Go ahead please.

Israel

Q. What are you expecting on the ICJ case? Are you expecting South Africa to drop that? Is that what you tried to——

President Trump. On which case?

President Ramaphosa. The International——

Q. The ICJ case against Israel.

President Ramaphosa. ——Criminal Justice.

Q. International Criminal Court.

President Trump. I don't expect anything, to be honest. I really don't. I don't know. It's a—they've got a case—there's a lot of anger there. Tremendous anger. I don't expect anything. We'll see what happens. We'll have a ruling, and who knows what the ruling is going to mean.

Yes.

Gaza, Palestinian Territories

Q. On that subject of Gaza. Mr. President, are you going to be speaking to Prime Minister Netanyahu about Israel's renewed offensive there? There's been a lot of concern from European countries. The Pope has expressed concern. Are you going to be asking Prime Minister Netanyahu to tone down the offensive in Gaza, to let more aid in?

President Trump. Was that a question or a statement? [Laughter]

Q. It's a question, sir.

President Trump. These guys. You never change.

Q. Mr. President, this side.

President Trump. Go ahead. Please.

South Africa Land Reform Policies

Q. What will it take from you—for you to be convinced that there's no White genocide in South Africa?

President Trump. Well——

President Ramaphosa. Well, I can answer that for President. [Laughter] It's—for him—[laughter]. No, seriously.

President Trump. I'd rather have him answer.

President Ramaphosa. Yes, I'd rather answer that one. It will be——

Q. My President will respond to you.

President Ramaphosa. Yes, let me——

Q. Thank you, Mr. President.

President Ramaphosa. It will take President Trump listening to the voices of South Africans, some of whom are his good friends, like those who are here. When we have talks between us on the quiet—around a quiet table, it will take President Trump to listen to them.

I'm not going to be repeating what I've been saying. I would say if there was Afrikaner farmer genocide, I can bet you these three gentlemen would not be here, including my Minister of Agriculture. He would not be with me.

So it will take him—President Trump—listening to their stories, to their perspective. That is the answer to your question.

Q. Thank you, Mr. President.

President Trump. But, Mr. President, I must say that we are——

Q. President Trump——

President Trump. No, no. Wait.

We have thousands of stories talking about it.

President Ramaphosa. Sure.

President Trump. And we have documentaries. We have news stories on that.

Is Natalie here—somebody here to turn that? I—could show you a couple of things, and I would—I just—I have to—it has to be responded to.

President Ramaphosa. Yes, sure.

President Trump. We have—let me see the articles, please, if you would. And turn—excuse me, turn the lights down. Turn the lights down and just put this on. It's right behind you, Johann.

[A video was played.]

President Ramaphosa. It's the leader of one of the small parties——

[The video continued.]

President Trump. Now this is very bad. These are the—these are burial sites right here—burial sites—over a thousand—of White farmers. And those cars are lined up to pay love on a Sunday morning. Each one of those White things you see is a cross, and there's approximately a thousand of them. They're all White farmers—the family of White farmers.

And those cars aren't driving. They're stopped there to pay respects to their family member who was killed, and it's a terrible sight. I've never seen anything like it.

Both sides of the road, you have crosses.

[The video continued.]

President Ramaphosa. Where is that?

President Trump. Those people were all killed.

President Ramaphosa. Have they told you where that is, Mr. President?

President Trump. No.

President Ramaphosa. No. I'd like to know where that is, because this, I've never seen. But—okay.

President Trump. I mean, it's in South Africa. That's where.

President Ramaphosa. We need to find out.

[The video continued.]

President Ramaphosa. I don't know it.

President Trump. [Inaudible]

President Ramaphosa. [Inaudible]

Okay.

Qatar's Gift of a Boeing 747 to President Trump/NBC News

Q. Mr. President, the Pentagon announced that it would be accepting a Qatari jet to be used as Air Force One, perhaps——

President Trump. What are you talking about a Qatari jet——

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

President Ramaphosa. We need to——

President Trump. You know, what are you talking about?

President Ramaphosa. I want to respond to that.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

President Trump. You know——

Q. The Pentagon spokesperson——

President Trump. ——you ought to get out here. What does this have to do with a Qatari jet? They're giving the United States Air Force a jet. Okay? And it's a great thing.

We're talking about a lot of other things. This NBC trying to get off the subject of what you just saw.

Q. I'll ask about——

President Trump. You are a real—you know, you're a terrible reporter.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Q. May I ask a——

President Trump. Number one, you don't have what it takes to be a reporter. You're not smart enough. But——

Q. Thank you, sir.

President Trump. ——for you to go into a subject about a—jet that was given to the United States Air Force, which is a very nice thing—they also gave 5.1 trillion dollars' worth of investment in addition to the jet.

Go back—you ought to go back to your studio at NBC, because Brian Roberts and the people that run that place, they ought to be investigated. They are so terrible, the way you run that network. And you're a disgrace. No more questions from you.

Go ahead. Talking about that.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Go ahead. Talk about that.

Q. Please, may we have a South Africa question, Mr. President Trump?

President Trump. His name is Peter [Peter Alexander, NBC News] something. He's a terrible reporter.

Q. If they're committing genocide——

President Trump. Quiet.

Q. ——why invite them to the White House?

President Trump. Quiet. Quiet.

Q. I'll be quiet, sure. That was my question, though.

President Trump. Let's go.

Q. Thank you so much, President Trump. Annika Larsen from eNCA in South Africa. Thank you very much for hosting us.

President Trump. Thank you very much, yes.

South African Land Reform Policies/News Media/Qatar's Gift of a Boeing 747 to President Trump

Q. What would you like President Ramaphosa to do about the situation that——

President Trump. I don't know.

Q. ——we've just seen on the screen?

President Trump. I don't know. All—look, these are articles over the last few days—death of people.

[The President displayed several printouts of news articles.]

Death. Death. Death. Horrible death. Death. I don't know.

Q. But do you know that there are——

President Trump. Pick any one.

Q. ——Black people who are dying the most?

President Trump. "White South Africans are fleeing because of the violence and racist laws." And this is all—I mean, I'll give these to you.

President Ramaphosa. No. No, I'd like to——

President Trump. So, when you—say what would I like to do, I don't know what to do. Look at this.

Q. I mean, but——

President Trump. "White South African couple say that they were attacked violently."

Q. President Trump, when will you go and see for yourself if it is indeed true?

President Trump. Well, I could do that. Look, here's burial sites all over the place. They're all——

Q. President Trump——

President Trump. These are all White farmers that are being buried.

Q. President Trump——

President Trump. And he asks about a jet that was given. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Q. My first question was about Afrikaners, sir. [Inaudible]

Q. We're not interested in the jet.

President Trump. You know, you're—you are so bad. You're such a bad reporter.

Q. If they're committing genocide, why invite them?

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Sir, if they are committing genocide, why invite the South Africans to the White House?

President Trump. [Inaudible]

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

This is one after another. This family was wiped out. I just—I'm just—look at——

Q. Can we get a response from President Ramaphosa, please?

Q. President Ramaphosa, can you give us your reaction to those videos, Mr. President?

President Ramaphosa. Yes, I want to.

Q. President Trump, could—could you address that Black people are dying——

President Trump. Well, I think it's—I think the videos are so——

Q. ——more than White people?

President Trump. No, no. When you look at the videos, I mean, how does it get worse? And these are people that are officials, and they're saying that—"kill the White farmer and take their land." That's what it is——

Q. Please allow Ramaphosa to respond.

President Trump. And I have other friends in South Africa—I have people that left—one, in particular, that says it's—it—you can't go there. He said they want to take your land. They take your land, and they kill you. It's okay. And they say it's okay to do.

No, I—we—we're going to talk about it.

President Ramaphosa. We're going to.

President Trump. But this is a tremendous——

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. Look, this is story—recent.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. These are all people that recently got killed.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. And I don't know how it can get any worse. These are——

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

President Ramaphosa. Okay. Well—hold on.

President Trump. And you know the man that you saw—the men that you saw, the people that you saw in that movie, those are officials. Those are people that were in office. They had—one march, they had a dance in your Parliament—whatever you may call it—legislature.

President Ramaphosa. But let——

President Trump. And it was terrible.

President Ramaphosa. Let me clarify that.

President Trump. Yes. Please.

President Ramaphosa. Let me clarify that, because what you saw—the speeches that were being made—one, that is not Government policy. We have a multiparty democracy in South Africa that allows people to express themselves, political parties to adhere to various policies. And, in many cases, or in some cases, those policies do not go along with Government policy.

Our Government policy is completely, completely against what he was saying, even in the Parliament. And they are a small minority party, which is allowed to exist in terms of our constitution, which——

President Trump. But you do allow them to take land.

President Ramaphosa. No, no, no.

President Trump. You do allow them to take land.

President Ramaphosa. Nobody can take land.

President Trump. And then, when they take the land, they kill the White farmer. And when they kill the White farmer, nothing happens to them.

President Ramaphosa. No, there is quite——

President Trump. Nothing happens to them.

President Ramaphosa. There is criminality in our country. People who do get killed, unfortunately, through criminal activity, are not only White people. Majority of them are Black people, and we have now been utilizing——

President Trump. The farmers aren't Black. The farmers are not Black. I don't——

President Ramaphosa. We have now—

President Trump. ——don't say that's good or bad, but the farmers are not Black. And the people that are being killed in large numbers—and you saw all those gravesites. And those are people that—loved ones going, I guess, on a Sunday morning, they told me, to pay respect to their loved ones that were killed—their heads chopped off, their—they die—died violently.

And you know, I mean, we're here to talk about it, and I didn't know——

President Ramaphosa. And we will talk about it.

President Trump. ——we'd get involved here.

But I will say this, that if the news wasn't fake—like NBC, which is fake news totally. One of the worst. ABC, NBC, CBS—horrible. But if they weren't fake news, like this jerk that we have here—if we had real reporters, they'd be covering it.

But the fake news in this country doesn't talk about that. They don't want to talk about it. But now they have to talk about it, but they won't. This won't even be a subject. They'll have him talking about, "Why did a country give a free"—think of this. "Why did a country give an airplane to the United States Air Force?" Okay? The United States Air—not to me, to the United States Air Force so they could help us out because we need an Air Force One until our——

[President Trump gestured toward a model of Air Force One.]

That's Air Force One. It's being built. Two of them being built.

But Boeing is a little bit late, unfortunately. So why did they give us a plane to the United States Air Force? That's what that idiot talks about after viewing a thing where thousands of people are dead.

President Ramaphosa. I'm sorry I don't have a plane to give you.

President Trump. I would—I wish you did. I'd take it. [Laughter] I would take it.

President Ramaphosa. But——

President Trump. If your country offered the United States Air Force a plane, I would take it.

President Ramaphosa. Okay. But coming back to this issue, which I really would like us to talk about and to talk about it very calmly. We were taught by Nelson Mandela that whenever there are problems, people need to sit down around a table and talk about them.

President Trump. Well, there are problems.

President Ramaphosa. And this is precisely what we would also talk—like to talk about, including, of course, trade matters, investment matters. So the issues that concern you as the United States——

[President Trump handed President Ramaphosa a stack of news articles.]

President Trump. Those are all recent.

President Ramaphosa. ——and——

President Trump. Those are all deaths.

President Ramaphosa. Yes. In many ways, I mean, one should say you are a partner—partner of South Africa—and you are raising concerns, and these are concerns that we are willing to talk to you about.

Let me just add quickly, you know, the criminality that we are experiencing in our country needs quite a lot of technological capability. And, in one of our areas in—South Africa, we're using you U.S. technology, which is able to, in many ways, identify where shootings are happening and all that.

And I'd like to talk about that, because there is support that we can get from you, as the United States, to help us deal with all these acts of criminality, and that is what I believe partnership is all about. And we are here as a partner so that we can help each other whenever there are challenges.

So I'd like us to discuss it, and, of course, outside of the media, so that we sit down and have a really good discussion that will lead to good outcomes.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

South African Land Reform Policies/U.S. Admission of Afrikaner Farmers as Refugees

Q. Are there any other punitive measures that could be in place should you not be satisfied that South Africa is fixing some of the very bad things—[inaudible]—that you tweeted are happening?

President Trump. Well, there are a lot of bad things happening in, you know, many countries, but this, in particular, has been very, very bad. It's very bad. And because of—you know, we're going to—whole—have the whole world watching in another short period of time, because you have the G–20, and that's a big deal. And it sees—it seems like—I mean, I want you to look good. I don't want you to look bad.

President Ramaphosa. Very good.

President Trump. But we have hundreds of people—thousands of people trying to come into our country because they feel they're going to be killed and their land is going to be confiscated. And you do have laws that were passed that gives you the right to confiscate land for no payment. You can take away land for no payment.

President Ramaphosa. I want to clarify that, because we have a constitution. Our constitution guarantees and protects the sanctity of tenure of landownership, and that constitution protects all South Africans with regards to landownership. However, we do say, because we've got to deal with the past, the Government—and as your Government also has the right to expropriate land for public use and——

President Trump. And you're doing that.

President Ramaphosa. And we've never really gotten underway with that, and we are going to be doing——

President Trump. Well, no. You're taking people's land away——

President Ramaphosa. We've—we have not.

President Trump. ——from them.

President Ramaphosa. We have——

President Trump. And those people, in many cases, are being executed.

President Ramaphosa. No.

President Trump. They're being executed, and they happen to be White, and most of them happen to be farmers. And that's a tough situation. I don't know how you explain that. How do you explain that? They're taking people's land away and, in many cases, those people are being executed. And, in many cases, it's not the Government that's doing it. It's people that killed them——

President Ramaphosa. You know——

President Trump. ——and then take their land. And nothing happens to them.

But we have thousands of people that want to come into our country. They're also going to Australia, in a smaller number.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. But we have thousands of people that want to come into our country, and they're White farmers, and they feel that they're going to die in South Africa. And it's a bad thing.

Yes, please.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

South Africa-U.S. Relations/White House Senior Adviser Elon R. Musk/News Media

Q. Mr. President, two questions for you. First, what can South Africa do? What concessions would you like to see them make to improve relations with the United States? Then I have one more for President Ramaphosa afterwards.

President Trump. Well, you know, we just spoke about—I got them a very, very complex machine, 150 of them. And I was asked by the President if we could help——

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. ——and I did that. And you know, I have great feeling for all countries. I—look, I deal with all countries, but I have a great feeling for South Africa because I have friends—I have a couple of friends—a few friends here today. But I have many friends from South Africa, but many of those friends are—they can't go back.

I have—Elon is from South Africa. I don't want to get Elon involved. That's all I have to do: Get him into another thing. [Laughter] But Elon happens to be from South Africa. This is what Elon wanted. He actually came here on a different subject: sending rockets to Mars. Okay?

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. He likes that better. He likes that subject better.

President Ramaphosa. That's right.

President Trump. But Elon is from South Africa, and I don't want to talk to him about that. I don't want to—I don't think it's fair to him.

President Ramaphosa. That's right.

President Trump. But I will say that people are fleeing South Africa for their own safety. Their land is being confiscated and, in many cases, they're being killed.

And that scene of—you see how many crosses they have. Those crosses—that's a dead person in every one of them. And those trucks or cars are paying their respects to all of those dead people on a Sunday morning. That's a rough—that's a rough thing to explain away.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

And the problem we have—and the way—you know, a correct and a fair media exposes things, but we have a very corrupt media. They won't even report this. If this were the other way around, it would be the biggest story.

Now, I will say, apartheid: terrible. That was the biggest story. That was reported all the time. This is sort of the opposite of apartheid. What's happening now is never reported. Nobody knows about it. All we know is, we're being inundated with people, with White farmers from South Africa, and it's a big problem.

Marco Rubio was telling me he's never seen anything like it—the numbers of people that want to leave South Africa because they feel they're going to be dead very soon.

Yes, please.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Brian, go ahead.

Q. President Ramaphosa, if I could me just ask a question. Seventy-two percent of farmers in your country are White. If they flee, do you feel that maybe the economy will—could collapse? You may not have a gap to fill in those people that need replace those farmers?

President Ramaphosa. You know, I'd like my Minister of Agriculture——

President Trump. Good.

President Ramaphosa. ——who is White, who comes from an opposition party to mine, who has joined my Government, at my invitation, to address some—the—this very issue, including the question that you've just raised.

John.

Minister of Agriculture John Steenhuisen. Thank you very much, Mr. President.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

Minister Steenhuisen. And, Mr. President, thank you for welcoming us to the White House.

I would say we have a rural safety problem in South Africa, and I don't think anyone wants to candy-coat that. And it requires a lot of effort to get on top of it. It's going to require more policing resources. It's going to require a different strategy to be able to deal with it. But certainly, the majority of South Africa's commercial and smallholder farmers really do want to stay in South Africa and make it work.

[Minister Steenhuisen continued his remarks, concluding as follows.]

And that is what this Government, working together, needs the support of our allies around the world, so that we can strengthen our hand, grow our economy, and shut the door forever on that rabble getting through the doors of the Union Buildings, because then South Africa's future will be——

Q. So you denounce that type of language in the video that you saw?

President Ramaphosa. Oh, yes, we've always done so. As Government, as my own party, we are completely opposed to that. We, in 1955, adopted a document which said, "South Africa belongs to all who live in it."

President Trump. But why wouldn't you arrest that man? That man said: "Kill the White farmers. Kill the White farmers." And then he danced, and he's dancing, dancing. And it's, "Kill the White farmers."

I think—I'm not sure, but I think if somebody got up in Parliament and started saying, "Kill a certain group of people," they—he would be in—he would be arrested very quickly. That man is going all over South Africa, and that's not a small party. That was a stadium that holds 100,000 people, and I hardly saw an empty seat. That's a lot of people. That's a lot of representation.

And those crosses—we have dead White people—dead White farmers, mostly.

And you take a look at Australia. They're being inundated, and we're being inundated with people that want to get out, and their farm is valueless. It's valueless, and they just want to get out with their life.

And it—this is a very serious situation.

President Ramaphosa. It is.

President Trump. And if we had a real news or a real press or media—we don't have that, because they won't talk about this. Because they're all guys like that idiot. But if we had a real press, it would be exposed.

And you know the beauty of exposing it is, it's like a cleansing action. When it gets exposed, it'll get fixed. That's when it'll get fixed, but people are going to talk about it.

And I'll tell you who's talking about it: the thousands of people that are fleeing South Africa right now.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

HIV/AIDS Prevention and Treatment Programs/European Union

Q. Will you discuss—will you discuss USAID and the devastating impact that cuts are having across the African continent?

President Trump. Yes, well, it's devastating. And hopefully a lot of people are going to start spending a lot of money. And I've talked to other nations. We want them to chip in and spend money too. And we've spent a lot, and it's a big—it's a tremendous problem going on in many countries. A lot of problems going on.

The United States always gets the request for money. Nobody else helps, as you know. Europe doesn't help. Europe hasn't given anything. All they do is sue our companies. You know, they sue Apple, and they sue all of our companies. Apple had to pay $17 billion on a nonsense lawsuit. Very unfair.

But we're going to always be there to help.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Resettlement of Afrikaner Farmers/South Africa-U.S. Relations

Q. Mr. President—Mr. President, on the Afrikaner. It's Sherwin Bryce with South African Broadcasting. If this Afrikaner resettlement issue is resolved—you're going to go into a room after this, you guys are going to talk. If it is resolved, what is the potential for the future-looking relationship——

President Trump. It's fantastic.

Q. ——between the United States and South Africa?

President Trump. It's got to be resolved. It should be resolved. It's—I mean, it's—a little bit bad when you see a stadium with 100,000 people in it, because that means it's more than just a little movement. It's a pretty big movement in South Africa. So it has to be resolved. It will be the end of the country if it's not resolved.

Q. But is there potential for the relationship moving forward?

President Trump. I hope so. I—that's why I'm here.

Q. Are you going to the G–20 in November?

President Trump. I mean, I'm not here for my health. I'm here to see if we can do something. [Laughter]

No, I'd like to see. I have friends—I can tell you, Ernie Els and Retief Goosen—they feel so strongly—they wanted to be here on behalf of South Africa——

President Ramaphosa. Of course.

President Trump. ——not on behalf of me.

President Ramaphosa. Of course. Yes.

President Trump. And you know, they said, "Can we be here for this?" Because they love the country.

Ernie, do you guys want to say a couple of words or anything? I don't—I hate to put you in—this—this is tougher than sinking a 3-footer, I'll tell you. [Laughter]

Professional golfer Ernie Els. And you've seen me on 3-footer.

President Trump. They have—and they've sank many 3-footers.

Mr. Els. Thank you, Mr. President. And thanks for the honor of being here. We've known each other a long time. We have spoken.

You know, we're proud South Africans. I still have my South African passport. You know, we've—we travel with this passport, you know, and I got my visa here. So, you know, but we want to see things get better in our home country, and that's the bottom line.

[Mr. Els continued his remarks, concluding as follows.]

But I don't think two wrongs makes a right. You know, President Mandela, when he came out of prison for all that time, didn't come out with hatred, you know, and really unified our nation with—through sport. You know, we won the Rugby World Cup in the '95.

President Ramaphosa. Four times. [Laughter]

Mr. Els. We won the—African Nations Cup, soccer. You know, we won some majors as golfers and so forth.

So what I'm trying to say is, you know, we—it—this has been a long time coming. That's why we really wanted to meet you—

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

Mr. Els. ——meet the administration, and see a way forward, because we still want to see our country flourish.

[Mr. Els continued his remarks, concluding as follows.]

So there's a lot of coexistence going on and help from a lot of areas, but we need—I feel we need the U.S. to push this thing through. We've got a great ally if we can have the U.S. It's always been an ally of South Africa for a very long time, even in the days of the war in—up in Angola, you know, you guys helped us.

So, very important for us to—have your support and, you know, get the change we need.

President Trump. Boy, did you do that well. [Laughter]

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

In fact, you know, he might have done that even better than he plays golf, which is almost—[laughter]—which is almost impossible.

Johann, please.

Compagnie Financiere Richemont Chairman Johaan Rupert. Sorry, Mr. President, if you had to wind all of those tapes properly, you will see I'm the biggest target of that rabble-rouser. Number one for over 10 years, Mr. Malema. In fact, the first time I met him, he was in the youth league with that gentleman, and look how he's changed.

President Trump. Right.

Mr. Rupert. We have too many deaths, but it's across the board. It's not only White farmers; it's across the board. And we need technological help. We need Starlink at every little police station. We need drones.

I actually got drones donated for the Peace Parks to stop elephant and rhino——

President Ramaphosa. Poaching.

Mr. Rupert. ——poaching. And his predecessor stopped the importation because he said the United States would spy on us. I mean U.S. basics, the ridicule. So, if we can—if you could help us.

[Mr. Rupert continued his remarks, concluding as follows.]

And then I met Vice President Vance many years ago at a Charlie Rose show. And my wife loved his book, and she reminded me this morning that you emphasized the devastation that occurs when big companies leave towns and cities and there's a culture of dependency that develops. I remember you discussing it.

Vice President James D. "J.D." Vance. Uh-huh.

Mr. Rupert. Now, that's our problem. If we don't get our economy to grow, the culture of dependency and the lawlessness will increase. I've been against apartheid all my life, and I'm their number one target. Please just Google my name and Malema—[laughter]—you'll see it, sir.

President Trump. Yes.

Mr. Rupert. He marched on the farms.

President Trump. But the crime is bad?

Mr. Rupert. The crime is terrible, sir. But Mr. Steenhuisen won't admit to it, but he runs the Western Cape where I live, and the biggest murder rate is in the Cape Flats. Gangs.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

Mr. Rupert. We've got gang warfare, like your M–33 or whatever, these guys——

President Trump. Yes. Yes.

Mr. Rupert. ——we've got the equivalents there, but we need your help, sir, and we need Elon's technology.

President Ramaphosa. Well, one of the real areas of support is really in investments. We've got to grow our economy, because through growing the economy, we're then able to create more jobs. Because crime really thrives where there is inequality and unemployment, and that is one of the reasons that has brought us here to improve our investment relations, our trade relations so that we can preserve the number of jobs that your companies have created in South Africa.

By virtue of what we export to you, we are able to create up to 500,000 jobs in the auto industry, in the agricultural industry, and a number of other industries, mining—where we export things to you. And we also know that as South African companies invest here, you are also able to create jobs. So it's a mutually beneficial relationship.

So our main, main, real reason for being here is to foster trade and investment so that we are able to grow our economy—your support—and so that we are also able to address all these societal problems, because criminality thrives when people are unemployed, when they have no other hope to eke out a living.

So that is what we need to resolve. And your support, your partnership with us is what is really going to give us a strong, strong capability to move forward.

Q. And then, Mr. President—[inaudible]——

President Trump. Retief, do you have—excuse me. Do you have anything to say? I mean, I don't want to leave you out. You know, the guy won three or four majors. Three or four?

Professional golfer Retief Goosen. No, only two, unfortunately. [Laughter]

President Trump. Two. [Laughter] That's a lot. Two is—by the way, two is a lot. A lot of tournaments you won too.

Do you have anything to say?

Mr. Goosen. Yes. Thank you, Mr. President, President Ramaphosa. I grew up in an area in South Africa that is a farmland, area of Polokwane.

President Ramaphosa. Yes. Ye.

Mr. Goosen. And there is some issues up there, obviously. My dad was a property developer, as well as a part-time farmer. And yes, some of these—[inaudible]—got killed.

The farm is still going. My brothers run it, but it's a constant battle with farms trying to get—they're trying to burn the farms down to chase you away. So it is—it is a concern to try and make a living as a farmer. And at the end of the day, you know, without farmers, there's no food on a plate. So we need the farmers to produce the food.

President Trump. And your brother loves farming, right? He wouldn't do it—he wouldn't even want to do what you're doing, right? They love farming. They don't want to leave.

Mr. Goosen. Correct.

President Trump. But it's a struggle.

Mr. Goosen. Yes, and, you know, food—and fresh water is the most important thing in life. You know, without those two things, you can't survive.

President Trump. How is the water there?

Mr. Goosen. The water is great. Obviously, all the water comes out on a borehole, out of ground for us down there.

President Trump. Right.

Mr. Goosen. But yes, it is a battle to get the water out sometimes, when all the equipment gets stolen all the time that you're trying to get the water out.

President Trump. So does your family and your brother—do they feel safe on the farm?

Mr. Goosen. They live behind electric fences, you know, to try and be, at night, safe. But it is constant, whenever you leave, that—something could happen. And——

President Trump. That's no way to live.

Mr. Goosen. Yes, no, both—of them has attacked in their houses. My mom has been attacked in the house when she was 80. So it is—you know, difficult.

But you know, the guys live a great life, despite everything going on.

President Trump. Yes. It's something, huh?

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

President Ramaphosa. President Trump, we—I brought along the president of the largest trade union in our country, Zingiswa Losi, because she leads many, many workers—more than 1 million, 1 and a—2 million workers. And maybe we should give her a chance to say something—

President Trump. Sure.

President Ramaphosa. ——because she's come all the way to join us.

Congress of South African Trade Unions President Zingiswa Losi. Thank you very much, Mr. President Trump, for——

President Trump. Thank you.

Ms. Losi. ——for having us, and, President, for extending the invitation to us as organized labor. And I must say that we are here to support the—initiative that has been made by our—Government with business, of course. As organized labor, we've been coming to Washington on the AGOA trade relations in the previous regime.

[Ms. Losi continued her remarks, concluding as follows.]

Recently, President, as you were preparing to come here, on the news, in—I think it was in Natal—there was a handover of farms, and White farmers were saying, "We are donating the land," but also there is a willing buyer, willing seller in South Africa, so there is no

President Ramaphosa. Expropriation.

Ms. Losi. ——expropriation without compensation. But it is a willing buyer, willing seller. And that White farmer was even saying, President, that they—the Government is even paying more in buying the land than what the land is worth of.

[Ms. Losi continued her remarks, concluding as follows.]

But lastly, for me, President, is also the issue of the crime statistics. There is no doubt about it that we are a violent nation, you know, for a number of reasons. And we're not condoning anything. But also, if you go into the rural areas where Black majority are, you would see women, elderly being raped, being killed, being murdered. And these are Black elderly women that would be found throat slits, raped multiple times, and all of that.

And the problem in South Africa, it is not necessarily about race, but it is about crime. And we think that we are here to say, "How do we, both nations, work together to reset, to really talk about investment, but also help us in how we can have the technology and everything that is needed, President, to really address the levels of crime that we have in our country."

Thank you very much for the opportunity.

President Trump. Thank you very much.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Russia/Ukraine/Rwanda/Democratic Republic of the Congo/Violence and Crime in South Africa

Q. Mr. President, "genocide" is a very strong word. I am wondering if you've made up your mind as to whether you believe genocide is occurring in South Africa or you still have doubts? And if you have made up your mind, why invite President Ramaphosa here today for this conversation?

President Trump. Well, I haven't made up my mind. I hate to see it from the standpoint of South Africa, but also, you know, I'm trying to save lives.

I'm working with Russia and Ukraine. I don't have to do that. It's not our war. It was started by other people. It was helped along by our past administration, and it would have never happened if I were President. But I'm trying to save lives, no matter where.

Rwanda—I have nothing to do with Rwanda and the Congo, but I felt I had a very talented person in this administration, and I sent him there. And he did an unbelievable job, I think. I mean, we're going to find out. But he's done the hardest part of the job. It should happen.

If I can save lives, I want to save the lives. If it's in Africa, that's great—if it's in Europe, if it's wherever it may be. And it's a very small investment to do, believe me, compared to what the consequences are. So I hope we can do something.

Look, I have so many friends. These two men—I have great admiration for them, because I know what they do for a living.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. And that's a very hard living—[laughter]—going from city to city, from country to country, and hitting a ball 350 yards like they do, and——

President Ramaphosa. Better than you and I?

President Trump. ——and getting the ball in the hole. [Laughter] It's very tough with lots of people watching. Right?

President Ramaphosa. Yes, yes.

President Trump. It's a very—that's a very tough living.

You know, they're champions. I respect champions, and I respect very much. And I think the country is very lucky. They really wanted to be here.

President Ramaphosa. That's true. Yes.

President Trump. They could be elsewhere.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. They could be on a beautiful fairway someplace——

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. ——and they wanted to be here, so——

President Ramaphosa. I'm glad you called them.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

President Trump. Yes, please.

Q. President Trump, my name is Ziyanda Ngcobo from Newzroom Afrika in South Africa.

President Trump. Good.

Group of Twenty (G–20) Nations Summit in Johannesburg, South Africa

Q. How important is it for the United States to be at our G–20 summit in November, given the relationship between our two countries? You've just heard what has been said to you just now. Are you coming? And are you preparing to come?

President Trump. So, without the United States, the G–20, just like the G–7—it used to be the G–8, but, brilliantly, they threw Russia out. It would have been a lot better if Russia was in. You know, a lot of people would say, "Oh, that sounded"—because if Russia was in, you probably wouldn't have this war.

President Ramaphosa. That's true.

President Trump. And if you had a different President, you wouldn't have the war either.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. But we have a G–7. It's important that the United States is in both of them.

President Ramaphosa. Yes.

President Trump. I think, without the United States, it's—I really believe it's not very important.

President Ramaphosa. I said——

President Trump. It's not the same meeting.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

President Ramaphosa. As I said to President Trump, the U.S. really originated the G–20. And it's important that the—the United States continues to play a key role in the G–20. And we are privileged to be the President of the G–20, but we are even overjoyed that we are going to hand over to the United States, who are the originators.

And for that reason, I expect the United States to continue playing the leadership role in the G–20, together with other countries.

And I've said, when I initially spoke to President Trump on the phone, I want him to come to South Africa for a state visit, and I also want him to come and participate in the G–20. And I want to gladly hand over to President Trump to take the leadership of the G–20 forward in November.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

President Trump. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, everybody.

Q. President Trump—President Trump, one more question.

President Ramaphosa. Thank you.

Q. One more question from South Africa, please.

President Trump. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

Q. What is it going to take to convince you to come to the G–20?

President Trump. They don't want to leave. [Laughter]

[Several reporters spoke at once.]

President Ramaphosa. They like you so much.

President Trump. They don't want to leave. [Laughter]

Thank you very much.