Bernie Sanders

Interview with Chris Jansing of NBC News

April 27, 2016

JANSING: You just said that you're in this campaign to win.

SANDERS: Right.

JANSING: Do you see a viable path?

SANDERS: Look, we are clearly the underdog. I'm very good at arithmetic. I think Secretary Clinton is 300-plus delegates ahead of us and we're going to have to do very well here in Indiana, we're going to have to do well in California, our largest state, and other states.

And the other thing that we're going to have to do is make the case to the super delegates, many hundreds of whom came onboard Secretary Clinton before I even announced. You know, they were with her way back when. And make the case to them that what is most important is that a Republican not gain control over the White House. And I think in any objective assessment of political reality Bernie Sanders is a much stronger candidate against Donald Trump than is Hillary Clinton.

And that's just not me talking, I mean, that's poll after poll, state polls, national polls. And the reason for that is we are appealing to independents and some Republicans, interestingly enough, who are tired of establishment politics and establishment economics who would prefer a Bernie Sanders than a Hillary Clinton.

JANSING: Some supporters are saying she has 3 million more votes.

SANDERS: In the Democratic primary, sure. I understand that. But look at (AUDIO GAP) where many of - I'll give you an example, just yesterday there were five primaries. We did badly in three, we did okay in Connecticut, we won in Rhode Island. The one state that we won was an open primary. Well you know what, the general election is open.

If you're an independent, you can vote for a Democrat, you can vote for a Republican. We are winning in the Democratic primary and caucus process independents, I think, roughly two to one compared to Hillary Clinton. So, it's not me. Every poll that's out there, national and statewide, shows Bernie Sanders defeating Trump by a significantly larger margin in many cases than is Hillary Clinton.

JANSING: But of course the nominee is elected by delegates.

SANDERS: Yes.

JANSING: You are far behind. The lead seems almost I insurmountable. Do you believe if you're not the nominee that you and your voters are owed something at the convention?

SANDERS: [inaudible] of owed something at the convention, if - if I am not the nominee, and we're going to fight for every last vote and we hope to become the nominee, we have run this campaign on a set of principles, and the principles are that we have to take on the billionaire class whose greed and recklessness are doing terrible damage to working families all over this country.

We need to join the rest of the industrialized world, guarantee health care to all people as a right, have paid family and medical leave, rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and make public colleges and universities tuition free among many other issues.

JANSING: So, how much influence...

SANDERS: To my mind…

JANSING: ... should you have on the platform?

SANDERS: Well, it depends, obviously, if we have a majority of delegates that will be the platform. If we do not have a majority of delegates, I would think that any smart presidential candidate will say millions of people are supporting Bernie Sanders, they want an agenda that goes beyond establishment economics and establishment politics, and I'm smart, I'm going to listen to those people and, in fact, create a progressive agenda, not just to appease Bernie Sanders and his supporters, but to winning this election because it is far more important to speak to the middle class and working class of this country than just the billionaire campaign contributors.

JANSING: Do you believe Hillary Clinton is smart?

SANDERS: Oh, god yes, she is very smart.

JANSING: Let me ask you about something Donald Trump said today, because he looks more and more...

SANDERS: Oh, what was it Donald Trump - now the media's - the media - major function of media is to follow the Donald Trump quote of the day.

JANSING: But more and more...

SANDERS: My eating habits.

JANSING: More and more it does look like he's going to be the nominee...

SANDERS: Yes.

JANSING: ... on the Republican side, so either you or Hillary Clinton is going to have to run against him.

SANDERS: Yes, it would be my pleasure.

JANSING: He said he would look to your speeches for very good material against Hillary Clinton, starting with she has bad judgment.

SANDERS: Well look, the Republican party will have dozens of oppositional researchers. They don't need my speeches to talk about Hillary Clinton. They will go after Hillary Clinton, by the way, in ways that I have never, ever gone after Hillary Clinton. I mean, things like the Clinton Foundation, or things like the e-mail situation.

I don't talk about that. I have never talked about it one word on this campaign. I suspect very much that Donald Trump and the Republican party will go after her in many, many ways that we have not.

JANSING: But if he says she has bad judgment, you wouldn't disagree?

SANDERS: It depends -- well, I think Donald Trump's not - not that Donald Trump has bad judgment, I don't think Donald Trump has any judgment whatsoever. When you have a candidate like Donald Trump who every single day is attacking a different group of people, whether they're Mexicans, or Muslims, or veterans, or women or African-Americans, this is a man without any judgment, without the demeanor, and I -- I think the vast majority of the American people, no matter what their political views are, do not believe that Donald Trump has the demeanor or the judgment to become president of the United States.

JANSING: You suggested he's...

SANDERS: That's why he's way behind.

JANSING: You suggested he's dangerous and if he is the likely - if he is the nominee, he is the likely nominee, does your continuing criticism of Hillary Clinton, if she's the nominee, hurt the Democrats' chances of pushing forward your agenda of winning the White House?

SANDERS: Look, this is media stuff, this is media stuff, okay? And I think this is what media focuses on.

JANSING: You don't think you're hurting her with criticism?

SANDERS: Of course I'm not hurting - Well, first of all, I am running for office. She went around today, I think yesterday, today, here in Indiana suggesting that Bernie Sanders voted against the automobile bailout, happens not to be true. She has talked about me wanting to dismember healthcare programs in America when I believe in universal healthcare, that I have attacked Planned Parenthood when I want to expand funding for Planned Parenthood.

That's what happens in a campaign. People exaggerate and they make charges. We have tried to run an issue-oriented campaign. Why am I running for president? Not for the fun of it, you know? I'm running because I think it is too late for establishment politics and because I have strong differences of opinion with Hillary Clinton, no great secret. Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq. She acknowledges that that was a mistake. I helped lead the opposition to the war in Iraq, voted against the war.

I have voted against every one of these disastrous trade agreements which have resulted in millions of Americans losing their jobs. She has supported virtually all of them. I want to end fracking in this country, as Secretary of State she supported fracking.

All right, I've compared...

JANSING: And you don't think those criticisms hurt her? I mean, you intend them to hurt her.

SANDERS: This is - this is called a democracy. Why am I running for president? What should I do? I should be talking about what I believe and the differences of opinion that I have with Hillary Clinton. Now, if the question is, are my views much closer to Hillary Clinton's than they are to somebody like Donald Trump, of course they are.

Donald Trump would be a disaster.

JANSING: Now, does that mean at some point...

SANDERS: But look...

JANSING: Does that mean at some point that the two of you...

SANDERS: ... this is media - this is not...

JANSING: No, no, no, but it will - at some point, will the two of you get in a room, whoever the nominee is, do you think...

SANDERS: Well...

JANSING: ... and whatever the differences were...

SANDERS: This is what I believe...

JANSING: ... and criticisms were...

SANDERS: This is what I believe...

JANSING: ... you will work that through.

SANDERS: Hillary Clinton and I, now, you have to separate the real world from media world.

JANSING: Sure.

SANDERS: All right, media world worries about these things, real world does not. Real world worries about how their kids are going to go to college, real world worries about climate change, real world worries about 47 million people living in poverty. That's not media world. Media world does gotcha type questions.

Now, I will do everything that I can, and I think Hillary Clinton and I agree on this, that we will do everything we can to make sure that a Republican does not win the White House, and I will knock my brains out, I will work seven days a week to make sure that that does not happen if I am the nominee and if I am not the nominee. That's what I will do.

JANSING: You and I in Indiana just shot some hoops. You were better at it, I think.

SANDERS: Well, I'm a little bit taller than you.

JANSING: All right, thank you. That's kind of you. You're a little better. So, if you were a betting man, if you were going down to the betting parlor, what are the chances Bernie Sanders is the Democratic nominee?

SANDERS: Well you know, politics is very strange and funny things happen, and especially this political year. It's been a pretty strange year I think it's fair to say. So, if the question is, do I consider myself the underdog, you know, when we began we were 60 points behind Secretary Clinton, we have closed that gap very significantly. We have now won 17 states, think we're going to win here in Indiana.

We are the underdog, but I think there is a narrow path to victory and we're going to fight for every vote that we can get to make that victory happen.

JANSING: Senator, thank you.

SANDERS: All right.

Bernie Sanders, Interview with Chris Jansing of NBC News Online by Gerhard Peters and John T. Woolley, The American Presidency Project https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/node/323511

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