Television Interview With the President and Mrs. Johnson Recorded in Connection With the Wedding of Their Daughter Lynda Bird.

[Held with Raymond L. Scherer of NBC News, Frank Reynolds of ABC News, and Dan Rather of CBS News]

MR. SCHERER. Mrs. Johnson, isn't this going to be a terribly lonely house with both your daughters married and gone?

MRS. JOHNSON. Ray, I am sure there will be moments when I will walk into Lynda's room and stand quietly and look at k. And there will be those things in the mirror, you know--a snapshot, a sort of a yellowed newspaper story, a napkin with something from a party on it.

And those Ernest Shephard drawings on the wall that she loved so well, you know, from the Winnie the Pooh books. Then I will have a sudden little wave of loneliness. But, no, not essentially. There will always be activity and excitement here.

They will be coming back lots of times. Speaking of loneliness, the other day I walked through a room where there was a picture, a family picture of us, and I just stopped and looked at it. There were just the four of us. And I thought how poor. Now we are seven.

Well, that doesn't make for loneliness. That just makes for more happiness when you can get together.

MR. SCHERER. Mr. President, how do you feel on that point?

THE PRESIDENT. Very much the same.

I was at the bachelors' dinner last night. They asked me to make a few observations. I told them that there were many pluses and minuses in life, as I was not unaware. I have had opportunity to be reminded on occasion of the minuses, but I am not sure that I ever stressed the great pluses for me. And they were my three girls--Mrs. Johnson, and Lynda, and Luci.

The thing that gives me added strength is that I have increased that number of three that I look to for comfort and for strength and for help to six now. Of course, Patrick Lyndon has his own way of giving it to you. And I wouldn't say it is effective on a mass basis yet.

But Pat Nugent was there and Chuck Robb was there. And the increase of the family does give me increased satisfaction.

MR. RATHER. We, Of course, have seen them over the years, Mrs. Johnson and Mr. President, and have our own impressions.

But I wonder if you could talk with us a bit about the differences in Lynda's personality and Luci's personality. There has been a lot written and said about it. I wonder if you could talk with us what you think the differences in their personalities are?

MRS. JOHNSON. Well, they are just as different as they can be. Luci is sort of the eternal Eve. She is extremely feminine. She is female before she is a person--dainty, oriented toward clothes and children and house.

Lynda is, oh, she is so intelligent and so companionable. So--she has a questing mind and a great sense of excitement in facing life. She is my best companion for a lot of things that we do together--trips, going to plays, and going to art galleries. None of that makes the slightest bit of difference in the measure that you love them, you know.

I had the best little insight on that last night, Dan, in their differences, when we had--Lyndon spoke of the party that he went to. Here, there was a very small one, just the bridesmaids. They did let the two mothers come down for awhile.

And Luci wrote a poem about her life with her sister which ended with a delightful little line about as "children and sisters and friends." And so they change with the years, you know, and they emerge as friends.

And all of their differences are very, very apparent and make life a lot more exciting.

MR. RATHER. Mr. President, there are those who have said over the years that Luci was your favorite. Would you talk to us about the contrasting personalities of the girls?

THE PRESIDENT. I think that I have never known many parents who had favorites among their own children. I think you see different things in different children. I think Mrs. Johnson has expressed it very well. They are quite different.

Luci writes it and Lynda reads it.

Lynda very much wants to--is a very curious person and wants to know all about everything that has been written that she has heard much about. She pursues it. She digests it. She assimilates and she retains it.

She is a very good student and that has been emphasized in all of her work.

Luci, on the other hand, is very gay and not concerned with being Phi Beta Kappa or leading the class or making the honor society, although her grades were quite good and we were pleased with them.

But, Luci, instead of going to a book and enjoying a poem, would just save time by writing it.

Luci, I expect, could prepare a pretty good cookbook and prepare a better meal. She has unique tastes.

I like to think that Luci is like my mother and my mother was one of my favorites, one of my very special favorites.

The only one I ever had to compare with her is the one that Lynda is like. That is Lynda's mother.

They are quite two different people. One is a "blonde." One is a "brunette". Both of them were good students. One of them was pretty conservative and prudent and careful and business conscious.

After all, Mrs. Johnson is the only one in our family that has ever met a payroll, you know.

Mother was creative, literary, producer of plays, and producer of poems, and producer of articles, and things of that nature, and not much concerned about who was going to buy the paper or pay for the--or meet the payroll or any of the things you really have to know.

MRS. JOHNSON. The best thing of all is that they just put their own talents, combine them, into making the family, into giving to the family.

THE PRESIDENT. I see in Lynda her mother every time she writes a check. I see in Luci her grandmother every time she can't find her checkbook and doesn't know what her balance is.

MR. REYNOLDS. Mr. President, you once told us you were very proud of Captain Robb because he did not presume to speak for you when reporters asked him what you said when he asked you for Lynda's hand. What do you think of this young man who is about to marry your daughter?

THE PRESIDENT. I like him very much. I read his press conference the other day and I am going to try to emulate it. I hope that I don't have to stay under fire for over an hour as he did. I want to keep ours to 30 minutes.

But I think that he is a young man of unusual experience and he has made the most of it.

MR. REYNOLDS. You once indicated to us, sir, right after the engagement was announced that it was primarily Lynda's decision and not one to be made by you.

THE PRESIDENT. Oh, of course, all of their romances have been their decisions. Luci and Lynda have had friends throughout the years--some closer than others; some they were more interested in than others. But all the people they have brought in the house we have been interested in and we have tried to enjoy them and make them a part of the family--and, generally speaking, they have been.

I am quite optimistic about this generation. I have liked what I have seen and what has come here and what has gone from here, and what is--and all of them that fill the rooms here today, the bridesmaids and their escorts and so forth.

I had to give up tutoring Luci in about the 10th grade, because she had already passed me. I am pretty high on this generation. I think that Captain Robb and Pat Nugent are two very unusual boys. And I think we are very fortunate to have them. And as near as I can see, with the many, many temptations that they have had, the embarrassments that have come from their conduct are unknown to me.

MR. SCHERER. Mr. President, how does it affect a Commander in Chief, so to speak, to know that his new son-in-law is going off to a war?

THE PRESIDENT. Well, I guess you are glad that you have a son-in-law who has had the training, several years in an elite group like the Marines, who is prepared and equipped to look after his country's interests. I feel that way about all the Marine Corps and the boys in the other services, too.

I am grateful for them. They are a mighty fine group of people that I think we don't really appreciate enough. It is pretty hard to appreciate a man enough who is willing to give his life for your liberty.

Chuck Robb came out of the University of Wisconsin and by choice went in the Marines and has led them ever since. And I won't have any doubt about the group that he follows out there or the group that he leads. I believe that it will be well done.

MR. RATHER. Mrs. Johnson, I know that you and Lynda must have had long conversations just before the wedding. What pieces of advice did you give her?

Mr. President, I would be interested to know what pieces of advice you had for her.

MRS. JOHNSON. I wouldn't really quite presume to advise her. You just live your life, you know. And then--you spend 23 years trying not to give advice but help show and direct and train. And then it's--well, every now and then you get a nice bonus of satisfaction when you find out that they are reacting in the way that you hope they will--the wisest and right.

MR. RATHER. You haven't found that actually stating advice has been very effective or a good way to raise the girls?

MRS. JOHNSON. Not as orders. What I have learned from life and what I think is the wisest course, yes. Sometimes you just have to flatly state the difference between right and wrong and say this is what you ought to do. But, oh, I don't think you can sit down and give a pattern for a young girl of 23 who has already acquired her system of values and her beliefs about life and behavior.

MR. REYNOLDS. Mr. President, if you could give these two young people anything at all, what would it be?

THE PRESIDENT. Well, that is very difficult for me to say. I, of course, want them, more than anything else, to have a grasp and understanding of other people. You are concerned from the time you get up until you go to sleep at night with human relationships. Over the years I have tried to do that. I think that they have had unusual opportunities in that respect.

Both of them have been on the platform since they were little tots. 1964, I remember Luci waking me up at 3 o'clock one night and I was rather irritated that a boy would be bringing her in that late. It was 3 o'clock Monday morning, as a matter of fact. She and I were in the home together.

I got up and asked her to give an accounting why she was coming in so late. She said, "Well, daddy, I have been to North Dakota and South Dakota and Nebraska this weekend. And I made 11 speeches and we are in trouble in Nebraska." That was why she was late coming in.

I think that I would want them to do unto others as they would have them do unto them and that they would always try to put themselves in the other fellow's position and say, "I just want to exchange positions with you and see how I would feel about that reaction."

If they do that on everything from the minor to the major decisions, I believe they would have a better state of mind. I believe they would be more successful. I think they would be more satisfied with themselves. I think they would contribute more to their country.

I think it is more valuable to them to understand human beings and try to engage in that objective that is primary with all of us---bettering humanity. I think that is the best way to better humanity--to understand humanity. The best way to understand humanity is to put yourself in the other fellow's position and say, "If I were in his place, how would I feel about the reaction I am giving him? Am I treating him like I would like to be treated?"

Mrs. Johnson and I have tried, in our relationship with each other, to bear that in mind.

I felt it so strongly that many years ago, for a Christmas present, I gave my wife and my daughters a little watch that had the Golden Rule on it. Sometimes, particularly when the press shoves me too far, I have to look at that watch and be reminded of that and count 10 before I respond.

But I think that is about as valuable a thing as a person can have--understanding his fellow man and trying to devote his life to bettering him.

MR. SCHERER. Mrs. Johnson, does one ever really become accustomed to raising daughters in a goldfish bowl?

MRS. JOHNSON. I can't say that I have found it too difficult. There are so many counter-balancing things--so many opportunities, interesting, exciting, significant people; a sense that you are on the front row of a great drama that is unfolding and that you have an opportunity to contribute a little bitty bit to it-oh, I couldn't say it has been bad. It has had some annoying moments. But not much.

And in line with what Lyndon was saying a few minutes ago about understanding, one of the best things that ever happened to me was the opportunity when he was off in the war to work for 6 months in his office. I don't think I ever got quite as annoyed at him afterwards for being late for dinner or being sometimes exasperated. I hope my children can somehow acquire that same sort of understanding. It helps.

MR. SCHERER. Mr. President, how much of a problem has this been for you raising Lynda in the bright light of publicity?

THE PRESIDENT. It has its very great advantages to me and to the children--as well as its minuses--the contacts with knowledgeable people, the interests of members of the Cabinet in young high school or college girls.

I have seen Dean Rusk and Bob McNamara and Secretaries Fowler and Wirtz and others sit around here and talk over governmental questions with Luci and Lynda while

MRS. JOHNSON. The children don't seem to know there is a gap in age and importance. They just sit and listen and sometimes speak up a bit.

THE PRESIDENT. This happened when I was talking to another Cabinet member about something quite private. I think it has broadened their horizons and given them different viewpoints--better understanding-and taken away some of the shyness and some of the hesitancies that would go with girls of that age.

On the other hand, I have seen very cruel things happen to them because of their father's position or because of their connection with the White House. I have bristled a good many times. I haven't written any letters yet, but I have bristled and choked myself.

George Christian has had to pat me even last night on one little item where Lynda-something is attributed to her that she had no connection with at all--never heard of-a credibility problem. She can't get it back though. I think that is true of all parents. Something that is unjust and hurts their child hurts them even more.

My father used to say to me that you will never know what it is to be a father until you are one.

He also said to me, when he would spank me as a youngster, "Lyndon, this hurts me worse than it does you." I never did quite believe that. I wondered if he really knew how much it was hurting me and how could it hurt him that much.

But I can see now when they are pulled in unjustly, charged with this or that, and it is untrue, no basis for it, just clear out of the air sometimes, when some person, political or otherwise, will say this, it hurts me very much.

So those are the disadvantages. You can just think what would happen to Luci if she had a paper cup of beer. You can think about what would happen if Lynda went through an orange light and her brake didn't hold. It is front page. It is special shows. And it is dramatized. Maybe she is ostracized.

But those, in the whole general picture, are very minor and unimportant compared to the advantages to them of the associations and the responsibilities they have, as well as their contribution to the success of their father's program.

I don't know anyone who has done more to help me try to better humanity than my wife and my two daughters.

Luci, I believe, was in 26 States, Lynda was approximately the same number--24 or 25. They made four or five speeches a day on their own, without any ghost writers, standing up on the platform of a train or on a box or at a picnic or out with the youngsters on a college campus. And the fact that you haven't read any too terrible things about them--some of the boys that have suffered unjustly, I think, because their name became associated with one or the other of them at times.

The kids started hurrahing them and they got into columns. That speculation started and that exaggeration came. But if I had it all to do over, I doubt that they could have a more satisfying experience than to be the children of public servants. I doubt that they could be more broad-gauged or learn more about what it is all about in life than to have had a little experience in the Congress and in the Senate and the Vice Presidency and the Presidency.

After all, men like Dean Rusk and Bob McNamara and Sam Rayburn, and Abe Fortas and Clark Clifford and folks like that are pretty good to have around with your girls and to teach them.

MR. RATHER. Mr. President, you mentioned that your father did not spare the rod with you, that he did spank you. Were you pretty heavy with the hairbrush with the girls?

MRS. JOHNSON. Well, boys are more difficult than are girls now. He was probably a difficult boy in his time.

THE PRESIDENT. Oh, I was an outlaw compared to these dainty little girls. We have never had any problem like that with them. I think they are so good because I have had very little to do with raising them.

Their mother is the one that has brought them up. The first few years with Lynda I did have to--I assumed the authority and did discipline her on occasion very much to her mother's dissatisfaction and to Lynda's.

On one occasion, I was trying to settle something that needed to be decided, and from my viewpoint, quickly with the Speaker or with someone else who might be having dinner with me. And Lynda was determined that she should be the center of attraction. The Speaker would be glad to have that happen because he didn't want it decided anyway. I had to take Lynda upstairs a time or two with my hand, a kind of [the President clapped his hands] on the back end, and she would--

But by the time Luci came along, she gave Lynda all the tricks and the things not to do and we haven't had any problems since then.

MR. RATHER. How did you handle discipline with the girls, Mrs. Johnson? It is always difficult, I think, more difficult to discipline girls than it is boys. How did you handle the discipline problem?

MRS. JOHNSON. I don't think so at all. I really don't have any experience with boys. But I haven't found it difficult with the girls.

MR. RATHER. Well, how did you handle discipline when they didn't do something that you thought they should do? Particularly as they got older. What kind of discipline did you impose on them?

MRS. JOHNSON. I just talked to them, Dan, and told them what I thought were the two sides of it.

THE PRESIDENT. The answer is she didn't apply any, Dan. She would just say, "Always remember you are trusted, always remember you are loved, always remember we care and I know that you are going to do what is right."

They haven't had any hours. They haven't had any limitations. They haven't had any things that--you cannot smoke, you must not drink, you cannot do any of these things. We don't have them.

MRS. JOHNSON. It really got across, though, the idea about hours. However we did it. They learned about not staying out too late.

MR. REYNOLDS. Mrs. Johnson, with all these preparations going on right now-you recently observed an anniversary. Do you think back to your own wedding?

MRS. JOHNSON. Yes.

MR. REYNOLDS. Quite a bit different, was it?

MRS. JOHNSON. Very simple.

MR. SCHERER. Mrs. Johnson, we are told mothers have an intuition about these things. Did you know, did you sense when Lynda first brought Captain Robb around that he was the one after all of her other boyfriends?

MRS. JOHNSON. Ray, I think the tip-off is when Lynda Bird began to say--about the second time that she said, "Mother, I want you to know Chuck better." When she begins to say--to plan that we sit down and talk, I began to sense then that this had some deeper implications, and so I was eager to do it.

And I liked it. I like knowing their friends. That has been one of the good things about our life. They have brought them home, lots of them.

THE PRESIDENT. I don't know when I have enjoyed an evening more than I did last night when I sat with some oh, 75 or 100 boys. Young men, some just back from Vietnam sat at the table with us, some just going to Vietnam, some professional men, some young teachers, doctors in the 25 to 30 age group. Some singing, and toasting and performing with jokes and things of that kind.

Then I went around and met with each of them and--it was quite an exhilarating experience. I wish they weren't so concealed and hidden from the American people. I wish that all America could see them en masse, just what the parents of this country have done and the kind of young man that we are producing. And I think it would make us all feel good.

MR. REYNOLDS. You don't worry about the younger generation then, Mr. President, do you?

THE PRESIDENT. Oh, yes, all the time. I worry about their opportunities and how they can keep their eyes on the stars and plenty of adventure and vision, how we can be on the same wavelength and still keep their feet on the ground and be realistic.

The great quality of youth is its hope and its dream and its vision. We must capture all of that without--and still keep a little realism in it and make it possible.

I have heard, through my 37 years here, I have heard many doubters talk about these boys--"How in the world could they ever bring Hitler to his knees, these 17-year old, fuzzy-faced kids that have never been away from home?"

I have seen men get up on the floor of the Congress and talk about how we were going to the dogs. I heard that for 30 years here. But then I saw those same kids in their B-17's go across both oceans, carry Old Glory around the world and bring her back without a stain on it.

And it showed me then that you don't want to be too quick to judge all youth by the few exhibitionists. They are definitely in the minority. I saw that in World War II. I saw it in Korea. I think it is greatly emphasized now because of television.

We see a few people and we think that this represents the young manhood and young womanhood of the country. It doesn't. It just represents the dramatic. And sometimes, we help them make it dramatic.

I read the other day where some television company brought in the signs. The youth didn't have them so they brought some of their own along, to use in case they could get pictures of the picketing.

Now, maybe that college had 20,000 people and perhaps a scene of that kind will involve 20 or 200.

Now, we have had that all through our life from the Revolutionary period on down. They are young people. There are some of them--we don't see everything alike or we would all want the same things.

But we are seeing more of the same every day in small groups here. I saw a different group last night.

MR. REYNOLDS. No picket signs?

THE PRESIDENT. I saw men who loved their liberty and their freedom and who were actually dedicating their all to trying to preserve it and really believed very deeply in what they were doing. That is not to say that those who disagree with them are not equally as sincere.

But I was very proud of these men who are willing to assume the responsibilities they are. I think if you look at the boy in 1968 and look at his father in 1928, you will see that the curve has been going upward in intelligence, in understanding, in better bodies, in better minds, in better education, in better--more material things available to them, and better living.

I am glad to see it, and I think that the next 20 years it will continue to go up. Now there are some who think it is going to the bad. But I am not one of them.

MR. SCHERER. Thank you, Mrs. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. President.

MR. REYNOLDS. Thank you, Mr. President and Mrs. Johnson.

MR. RATHER. Thank you very much.